wpe6CE.jpg (11946 bytes)
wpe6DD.jpg (5528 bytes) Issue: January 11th, 2009
 Story 092806
ABSTRACTED MINUTES - ASSOCIATION MEETING, November 2008...

Attendees ... Delegates from:- Apologies from:-
The Executive ...
  • President
  • Vice President
  • Secretary

Visitors ...

  • Mr Bray
  • Mr Borg
  • Mr Grogan
  • Mrs Henderson
  • Mrs Moses
  • Winston Hills
  • Castle Hill
  • Baulkham Hills
  • Kings Langley
  • Kellyville
  • Hawkesbury
  • Oakville
  • Carlingford
  • Rouse Hill
  • Schofields

  • Correspondence inwards and outwards was tabled.
  • Minutes from the previous meeting were taken as read

Secretary's Report
Mr Yard provided this written report ...

There certainly is not a lot of good news.

We have had cause to suspend two coaches, both for two weeks, for over pitching representative players to the extent that there were ineligible to play representative games the following day. Both coaches admitted the over pitching prior to being suspended.

There is a larger issue in one of these over pitching instances around, where the Result Sheet was altered in an apparent attempt to ‘cover up’ the over pitching. That matter was more important to me than the over pitching.  You will be asked to make a decision on whether there should be any further penalty.

The Youth League lost a game on protest and had Coach John Chapman suspended for four games. We have appealed; we believe the rules are poorly written and confusing; however we have made that point a number of times previously.

The problem with Dispensation is just as serious. You may recall that two Baulkham Hills’ nine year old players were refused dispensation by the Association to play Douglass League at September meeting on a 4-1 vote.

It was then at that same meeting that the Club asked then asked that dispensation be considered to allow the two players to play Leonard North these were approved on a 3-2 vote. I am certain that as far as the Hills Board was concerned the players were playing Under 12 Leonard North - I know I did. Well it turns out that they players continued to play Douglass League even after

Hills made two decisions which were binding on the Club.  I know of no other example of such an instance. It is difficult to justify when other clubs had dispensation requests refused at the same meeting and accepted the decision without question. It is just another example of how flawed the Dispensation Policy is.

We certainly are now between a very large rock and a very hard place on the issue and it is not the Meeting's or Executive's doing. However it is impossible to ignore the matter. It is now nothing to do with the players’ ability. It is with blinding light of hindsight that I now realize what the Baulkham Hills rescission motion which lapsed for lack of any detail was about last meeting.

There was a letter received that accused an umpire of being biased in calling a game. Really to substantiate any such charge you would have to be present at that game. An investigation based on examination of the score books indicated nothing untoward. Both teams threw far too many walks in the first innings (10 in total) the difference in the teams was that one team hit and the other did not. There were 18 walks in the game. This should tell you about the playing standard and the question would LL will make it better?

There is a report from an Umpire expressing dissatisfaction with the behaviour of coaches in an Under 14 Street South game. We are awaiting comments from the two clubs – Rouse Hill and Carlingford.

Jeff Catt has resigned from being the Hills’ Delegate at the BNSW JLSC. One cannot blame him, he has performed his duties on behalf of all Junior Baseball with distinction but it has come at a large personal cost to Jeff. We need a replacement. That replacement will not be either Peter or I. There has been one expression of interest to be Jeff’s replacement. He has very big shoes to fill.

There was some good news as well. Jeff Catt and Greg Robinson conducted a Level 0 coaching accreditation course. As an Association we insisted that the ratio of instructors to students be one coach to every six coaches.

 In addition Hills had a table at the fundraising Trivia night for Dennis Castle. The people on the Hills table were from the Kings Langley Club. Thank you for your support for the night and to Greg Robinson for co-coordinating the Hills’ table.

The night was a success with in excess of $9,000 being raised on behalf of Dennis.

Castle Hill also organized a table as did NSWJBL.

You have the briefing note re Little League. My sole purpose will be to do what I consider is best for Hills.

Just be aware of the half truths being told – there was a mention that this was to be discussed at the last Hills meeting (the inference being that the Executive decided to put it aside). Hills’ meeting are held one night before BNSW meetings – it was the night after the Hills meeting that, through Jeff, we learnt that the expressions of interest for Little League Charters were being extended.

I have received zero from BNSW on this and it was not until last week that Peter was contacted and yesterday when he received written advice.

Clubs have been slow in submitting their team registration sheets. Oakville won the prize for being the first club to submit the information. Clubs who yet to have submit the information are:- Rouse Hill, Kings Langley, Winston Hills and Carlingford.

It is obvious that Hills has to implement stricter time lines for the submission of administration type information.

Hills received a request from Quakers Hill to ‘accommodate’ three of its Under 9 T Ball teams after a Cumberland Competition became non viable. It was easier and better for us to redraw the Under 10 Catt League than the Under 9 Vigenser League.

The Under 12 Leonard South Competition has been redrawn following Schofields withdrawal. Until the end of November there are two teams per week not playing each week. I agree that this is not the most desirable outcome however it became important that come semi final time that each team realize that they were treated exactly the same. Each had a bye and played or received a forfeit from Schofields.

The problems with Hay League continue as Hawkesbury are simply not competitive. There is a draft draw prepared which plays a eight or seven team round robin (depending on Kings Langley decision) before the teams play one more round in the separate competition. There will be two separate final series – Hay League would be a three team final and Street North a four team final series.

Clubs just have to be comfortable with the change tonight before it is implemented from this Saturday – 15th November. The seven run rule would stay in place for the ‘protection’ of Street North teams.

If approved the draw for this week would be

  • Castle Hill v Carlingford  @ Castle Glen 1 10.30

  • Winston Hills v Baulkham Hills Kookas  @ Sutton 1 10.30

  • Hawkesbury v Kellyville  @ Bensons 2 10.30

  • Baulkham Hills s Magpies would have the Bye.

Kings Langley move to Street South and play Rouse Hill Jaguars @ Centenary 1 10.30.

The State U16 team has been announced. Hills have seven players selected in the 19 man squad. The players selected are Joshua Blanco, Ben Cone, Harrison Garrett, Joshua Guyer, Ben Macerola, Andrew Woodward and Jacob Younis.

One issue that has been deferred was Hills conducting pitching training at Centenary on a Thursday night. One of the reasons for being put on the back burner was that Phil Leonard suffered a heart attack. Phil is at home now and well on the way to a full recovery and is progressing well.

I keep bemoaning the fact that the playing standard within Hills has fallen dramatically. Last season I visited Clubs conducting hitting and pitching sessions. We will again offer that service if there is enough interest among the clubs. From early December we will have the services of Trent Oeltjen.

The presentation to Greg Giffin and Greg Robinson of the framed Little League playing tops is planned for this Sunday at the State Cup game at Kellyville subject to the availability of the two Gregs and Peter. If there is thought that there is a more appropriate occasion for the presentation. Grand Final day is one possibility but that is too far away.

The pitching restrictions for midweek games are confusing some coaches. To the credit of some coaches they realize that they do not understand and have asked for clarification.

Let me start off by saying that Thursdays are not the ideal game because of the pitching limits carrying over to the following Saturday. Pitchers throwing more than 29 pitches on a Thursday will be unable to pitch on Saturday at all.

The 29 is an absolute maximum number if you want to ‘use’ the pitcher again on Saturday. The choice of assignments rests with the team's coach. They may choose to pitch more than 29 (up to 65) on Thursday and not pitch the player at all on Saturday.

If you decide to 'finish the batter in the box' and the pitch count climbs to 30 then the pitcher will be unable to pitch Saturday. All pitches thrown count.

Overall game limit for a pitcher is to throw three innings or 65 pitches.

There is an overall maximum restriction of 128 pitchers allowed in any five day period. This includes number of pitchers thrown by State players in their practice games.

Thursday is generally the start of a 'new' five day period with mostly games only being played on Saturday. Mid week games on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday will always be in the five day period from the previous Saturday and Sunday.

However there becomes a problem with representative and State players once they exceed BNSW pitching numbers, (24 and 54 for Under 14 and 29 and 65 for Under 16). These players are governed by different rules which require two days rests from pitching or catching for pitchers throwing in excess of 24 pitches (29 for Under 16) and three days ‘rest’ after throwing in excess of 54 (64 for Under 16)

The 128 limit is in place as there is always the possibility of players pitching in rep games on a Sunday. So then you have Saturday (a minor assignment 24), Sunday which could equal a major assignment and have the player to pitch again Tuesday or Wednesday. That is a big workload.

Some other ideas running through my mind to improve the knowledge of both players and coaches is ‘employ’ Jeff Catt to be available to clubs at Under 14 level to teach the set plays and assist with the tactics of the game.

Also we will do some work to prepare a Manual for clubs as to what to teach and when to teach it. Greg Giffin has already done a considerable amount of work on this.

We are often criticized about not entering Development teams. I am totally unfazed about the criticism simply because there is difficulty in servicing teams, coaches, managers, umpires and venues for representative fixtures. If we cannot do it properly then we should not do it all.

In two of the last three Youth League games we have struggled to get an Umpire. So far my loyalty to Hills outweighs any of my dislikes. But this situation will not continue. It is extremely disappointing when the Under 16 parents will not assist by running the bases.

We have been approached by Bankstown to alter the date for the Under 12 State Cup game scheduled for 30th November as they have three players away. The best alternative to suit the preparation of the Under 12 is to play on 23rd November. BTW is a ‘crunch’ game for Bankstown.

The question that we need to resolve is whether we organize the January camps? This is especially so given the possibility of Hills conducting a Holiday Competition for 10,11 and12 year olds. Probably the best way is to make the offer of specialist training over two three day camps and see what response we receive.

Whether we conduct Little League or not I think there are some advantages to be had in conducting a January School Holiday competition. Last year’s competition provided more games and was a positive experience and was fun for the players. The competition certainly had a value. It will not be called Little League unless we apply for a LL Charter. Other than the name the competition would be conducted the same as last year.

There would be a Player draft to make the teams as equal as possible. The cost would be between $15 and $20 per player to cover the costs of T Shirts and caps and equipment. How that is funded is a decision for the meeting.

There is no need this year to play a maximum or minimum number of games, nor is there any real need to stay with LL ages- or rules.

We should be careful not to allow the very young player to play. It was obvious last year that many players could not cope with the level of play. We would need a minimum of four teams (maximum of six teams) for the competition to be viable.

The one proviso I would be insisting upon is that if we sign the LL charter then players who want to play in the then Hills LL team/s would have to play in the midweek holiday competition to be considered for selection.  The playing distance should be 48’x70’

Otherwise the rules would be in accordance with LL Principles, rules, warts and all.

The Secretary’s report was accepted.


NSWJBL Report ...

Mr. Schmidt reported on the October meeting.  Matters discussed were:

  • the Singapore tour,

  • the inclusion of items for the website, and

  • the forthcoming Dennis Castle Fundraising night.

  • The Singapore tour was considered a success, further enhancing the NSWJBL relationship with both Singapore and IBA.


BNSW Junior League Standing Committee (JLSC) Report ...
Mr. Catt reported on the JLSC October meeting.
  • Mr. Willott presented a debrief of the BNSW Board meeting.

  • There were further changes to the rules for the representative competition.

  • The applications for Little League charter were again extended , the new deadline is tomorrow night (12th November).  There is also to be a discussion on the retention of players.

  • This was the last meeting that Mr. Catt will attend as Hills’ delegate.


Treasurer's Report ...
  • Statement of Financial Position was presented.
  • Payments were approved.
  • Debtors and liabilities were disclosed.

Little League Update...

Mr. Schmidt referred to the discussion paper sent to Clubs last week. He also advised that the ‘new’ Little League Charter is much simpler than last season’s charter.  The previous charter was something that we, as an Association, could not deliver on and as such had no intention of doing it anyway.


If we sign the charter we would be required to add the LL brand to the Conference name of Douglass League, and reduce the playing distance to 46 ft. x 60 ft. We could not, as was suggested, consider the Leonard League Northern Conference as Little League competition.  The Little League competition must be the Premier Little League Competition.

Castle Hill has indicated that it will seek a Little League Charter if Hills declines to accept the charter.  It is understood that it would only be allowed to use Castle Hill players.

The motion was that Hills sign the Little League Charter and the Douglass League becomes a Little League competition.  Carried 9-1 with one abstention.


Matters arising from the Secretary's Report ...


Dispensations
  -  Mr. Yard outlined the ‘problem’ with two dispensation requests for Baulkham Hills.  The dispensations were applied for, to play Douglass League, and refused at September meeting.  They were then varied to allow the players to play Leonard North.

Baulkham Hills consider that they appealed the decision, however nothing was even formally received.  It was explained that the rulings of the Association are such that they stand until such time as they are overturned.

The situation is that we have players continuing to play in a League when dispensation for them was refused.  The options are: 

  • continue to allow them to play in the team or order their removal from the team:

  • should there be a penalty - penalise the team by way of loss of competition points or fine coaches.  

Neither option is the direct result of the coaches or the team.

It was resolved that the players be allowed to play in Douglass League.  Vote 7-3. 

It was also resolved that the Baulkham Hills Club be fined $50 for the breach.

It was raised that Castle Hill also breached a ruling of the Competition Secretary in relation to Patrick Manning’s dispensation.  Castle Hill agreed that it also should be fined $50 for its breach.

Overpitching – Both coaches involved in the overpitching were suspended after each pleading guilty.

Both teams that overpitched lost the games concerned. It was resolved that no further action be taken in relation to the two instances of overpitching.

Delegate to JLSC:  Mr. Schmidt thanked Mr. Catt for his services as Delegate to JLSC.  The thanks was carried by acclamation. There was only one nomination for Mr. Catt’s replacement was Peter Whatson.  The meeting agreed to Mr. Whatson being appointed as Delegate.

January Holiday Competition  -   It was agreed that Hills conduct a Holiday competition similar to last year’s Little League competition.  The number of games would be reduced to 10 and the competitions would not run beyond January. Mr. Yard estimated that the cost to equip the players would be $15 to $20 maximum.  Whether that be paid from the Co-Operative program or players direct was not resolved. Clubs indicated that they wished to be involved in the nomination process, with them being the initial nomination point.

January Camps  -  It was agreed, as least in principle, that Hills would offer January camp/s as they would be held at the same time as the Holiday competition.

Hay/Street North  -  It was agreed to the temporary joining of the two competitions for a seven week period. 


General Business ...


Quakers Hill
  -  Mr. Schmidt advised that Quakers Hill has advised him that they would be ‘resigning’ from Cumberland Association. The club will do due diligence and approach Ryde, Greater West and Hills to determine what each of the Associations offer them.

Mr. Schmidt added that if Cumberland ceases to exist then Quakers Hill would be welcome in Hills.  However the long standing policy has been in belief that Hills would not ‘poach’ clubs from other Associations.

Level O Course  -  Mr. Borg thanked Greg Robinson and Jeff Catt for conducting the Level 0 Coaches Course.  Baulkham Hills expressed a desire for more courses.  Given other commitments, it is unlikely that another course be conducted before January. Mr. Yard stated that Hills had insisted that the ratio of Instructor to Student be one instructor to every six ‘students’.  This is to ensure the quality in delivering the teaching.

Under 16 Cashmore  -  Mr. Petrone enquired as to whether the Cashmore League would be split into North and South Conferences. In reply Mr. Yard advised that he was considering the ‘splitting’ of the competition as there appears to be a clear ‘split’ between the top and bottom teams.  He also stated that he has some reservations about conducting competitions where it appears to discriminate against better teams in favour of weaker teams. Nothing would be done until one complete round of the competition was completed.

Kellyville  -  Mr. Petrone advised that the main diamond at Kellyville will be unavailable from 13th December.

Marking of Diamonds  -  Mr. Brown reported that the 25ft. line required to be marked on Mod Ball and T Ball is not being marked on all diamonds.

ModBall Pitching Distance   -  Mr. Brown reported that modball teams are pitching off 25 ft. and not the 42ft distance.

Batting Tunnel  -  Mr. Frew advised that Council approval has been obtained for a batting tunnel at Colbee Reserve.


NEXT MEETING is December 9th in the boardroom of REMA Industries at 7.30pm