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wpe6DD.jpg (5528 bytes) Issue: January 11th, 2009
 Story 092803
ABSTRACTED MINUTES - ASSOCIATION MEETING, August 2008...

Attendees ... Delegates from:- Apologies from:-
The Executive ...
  • President
  • Vice President
  • Secretary
  • Rouse Hill
  • Castle Hill
  • Baulkham Hills
  • Kings Langley
  • Kellyville
  • Schofields
  • Hawkesbury
  • Oakville
  • Winston Hills
  • Winston Hills

  • Correspondence inwards and outwards was tabled.
  • Minutes from the previous meeting were taken as read.

Secretary's Report
Mr Yard provided this written report ...

So much has happened since our last meeting.

Little League team has been to Hong Kong and back.

19 Hills players have been to Japan and returned and a further ten players will return from the USA tomorrow. In addition to the players six Hills coaches had the opportunity to coach overseas and further their personal development as coaches.

With all these distractions over we now need to fully concentrate on the upcoming season. Team nominations are due 26 August.

The first division competitions in Under 17, 14 and 12 will commence on 5th and 6th September with all other competitions apart from Under 8 will commence on 13th September.

I am more than a little apprehensive about the viability of our first division competitions. Under 17 – the teams appear to be Baulkham Hills, Castle Hill and Winston Hills. Obviously we need to ‘find’ a fourth with a Hills Kings format, although there is a ‘nibble’ from Workers in this age.

The thing working against us is the ‘leakage’ of players from one club to another, with a number of players changing Clubs.

  • Under 14 – appear to be Baulkham Hills, Castle Hill, and I assume Kellyville and Winston Hills… otherwise we are in trouble in this age group as well.
  • Under 12 – will be a problem with Baulkham Hills and Castle Hill only ones certain.

The proposed ‘new’ first Division competitions in Under 9 and 11 are continuing to be offered, along with Under 10 Mod Ball (in which Castle Hill are likely to have two teams).

I do not know what Cumberland propose to do this season with its first division teams.

Working the selection trials around everything else that has been happening has been far from easy. We had thought that the Under 14 and Under 16 would have been completed last weekend, however that was not to be.

  • We cancelled the Under 16 trial scheduled for last Saturday as Baseball NSW had scheduled the commencement of the State Trials for that day. Guess what? The trials were apparently cancelled on Thursday – certainly no advice to Associations. It is as if Baseball NSW almost expect their website to be people’s internet home page. Their method of communication with Associations does not work. That age group will trial again Thursday night. There is no guarantee that the squad will be finalised then.
  • Under 14’s, because it had a player away could not quite get down to its final numbers. The problem they have is one of team balance including a lack of hitters. That squad will be finalised Sunday.
  • The Under 12 team has been selected. It is a very young team, much younger than we had hoped for. That was a result of a very disappointing number of triallists. For the first time in memory we asked individual players to trial – but to no avail. The top nine players will be good; it is the overall strength of the squad that is our concern.
    • The squad is Mackenzie Bohan, Guy Burgess, Dean Frew, Liam Gilchrist, Patrick Holm, Jordan Lindsay, Adam McAlonan, James Mc Callum , Jordan McCarthy , Tom Roberts, Matthew Rofe, Isaac Whatson , Dylan Wiggins and Jordan Wood .

There is a stand off between Hills (and I understand Cronulla and Greater West) with Baseball NSW’s plans for Little League this season. All three Associations are prepared not to be eligible to play Little League if necessary. It results from Baseball NSW’s refusal to recognise separate Little League competitions as eligibility to compete in Little League.

Little League does not improve the nine and ten year olds (who are ineligible to play in the Little League Tournament anyway). That is to say nothing with the Under 12 Southern and Eastern Conferences which last season could not handle 42ft pitching distance and an 8 1/2” Rubber ball and are expected to pitch 46 ft and play with a 9” hard ball. Give us a break!

Really there is no plan here – it’s more of the same approach to ‘massage’ the rules into something that may fit the situation just to get the Associations to agree. The 12 year olds that are too old for Under 12 but eligible for Little League as they were born on or after 1 May can still play Under 14 – they don’t have to play in a Little League competition…so why isn’t that considered a separate competition?

The Under 12 Representative Competition is played with an 8 ½” ball equivalent to the Kenko ball over 48ft x 70ft (greater than Little League distance)- yet players of far less ability have to handle greater playing distances than they are capable of handling and doing it with a harder and larger ball. However, I have a feeling that they will attempt to change that decision of the JLSC.

While in Japan I purchased six “Kenko’ bats. They are 72cm in length (28.3”), 540 gram (19oz) and 2 1/2”dia. The cost was equivalent to $A 42 each. As far as I am concerned it is first in first served. There are some very nice bats on the market. While I was in Japan I saw a carbon and glass bat. I guess it was about 30” long and 450 gram (16 oz) – it had a beautiful feel but would not comply with our rules. Cost was $A91.

We are still seeking an Assistant Coach and a Manager for the representative Youth League team.

Dennis Grogan has been offered the position of Manager of the Under 14 team. Tim Mc Callum has accepted the position of the Under 12 Manager.

The only nominations for the coaching staff of Under 14 Association Cup team were Raff Petrone and Steve Holloway.

• We have been approached by a Cumberland player to transfer and play Youth League for Hills. His mother has spoken to Baseball NSW’s Competition Secretary and his opinion is - because the player’s club team played in Hills competition and that since the player did not play for Cumberland Youth League last year that he is entitled to play for Hills if he wishes. Wonder if they even thought to ask what competition they were playing this year?

Standing down a season appears to have become retrospective. Dear oh dear what a mess they are in administratively and with rules – all of their own doing.

The Executive just don't agree with this - there are no rules with this mob. The player has never been registered in Hills nor has he paid any fees to Hills. Cumberland clubs register with (and pay) Cumberland, this example is a reason why.

As far as I am concerned the player does not play for Hills. Not our problem if the team is not good enough for him or he doesn't like the coach.

Unless otherwise directed Hills will continue to support what used to be the eligibility rule under NSWJBL – when you change Association without changing address you are ineligible to play representative baseball for one season.

The player will probably make the State Team this year. Having said that, it does not alter my opinion.

The Winter competitions have been finalized. Under 16 was won by NSWJBL World Series team defeating Winston Hills 8-5 Under 14 was won by Blacktown defeating Baulkham Hills by a run Under 12 went to Quakers Hill, defeating Dragons 10-8.

We need to tighten up our rules for next season in relation to eligibility age; they were ignored in this competition.

Barry Shipley is intensive care in Westmead Hospital suffering from meningitis. He is in an induced coma.

Hills have only nominated one team in Association Cup, that being the Under 14 age group.

It was obvious from the numbers attending both the Under 12 and Under 16 representative trials that we just did not have sufficient numbers to field anything like a ‘balanced’ team. The pitching and catching depth was simply not there, nor was it close to being there.

The Development plans for summer are similar to last summer. We will again have the services of Trent Oeltjen from November. We will make him available to clubs at their venue on basically an as required basis. Not sure of what nights at this stage as it depends upon what days / nights that Trent organizes his own training regime. The pitchers and catchers training mid week which was badly disrupted by rain last year – will again be repeated this year. I need to confirm the availability of a venue with lights.

The Little League team performed well and at one stage would have thought that they could have made it at least to the final game – but that was not to be. They got off to a bad start unexpectedly losing to Indonesia 3-2. They atoned for that defeat with a 2-1 win over the fancied CNMI (Saipan).

That was followed up with a 9-4 win over New Zealand. At that stage of the competition they and Guam were the leading teams in the Pacific Region. The 4-2 loss to Philippines (who produced a ‘gun’ pitcher, equipped with a very effective curve ball) put paid to the team’s dream.

That loss was followed up with a 5-0 loss to the eventual winners of Asia – Pacific Tournament – Guam which defeated Hong Kong in the final.

Overall we should be extremely pleased with the effort. We are National Champions and we were creditable on the World Stage. We could match it with everyone when we had our top rotation available. This is an excellent effort when you consider that we were up against it due to our lack of depth in the squad.

The trip was one that the players will never forget. Undoubtedly there are lessons to be learnt, there are from every tournament.

The Executive has not had the time to conduct a debrief with team management. With a venue like Disneyland there were always going to be a lot of distractions - unfortunately those distractions far outweigh Baseball in the minds of 11 and 12 year olds.

There was a lot of wasted effort and money through poor communication. The ABF would not talk to either Peter or I direct – we had to go through Baseball NSW and they did not have the answers either. It was never a Hills team it was an ABF team. It was a case of the right hand never knew what the left hand was doing.

Riverstone Bowling Club is the venue for the Rules night on 25th August. 7.00pm for 7.15 pm start.

The practical training organization session and explanation of rules for T Ball and Mod Ball coaches will be held at Castle Glen on Sunday 31st August at 9.30am. It will take approximately 2 hours.

I wrote to all clubs regarding the purchase of equipment. Not all clubs replied. We have stocks of the Kenko C class ball, the K500 ball for Under 8 and T Ball gloves at $21.50 each. I  will have a large quantity of Wilson 1010 baseballs available next week – they will be available @ $58.00 dozen. If you require any equipment please contact me.

We conducted two camps in July school holidays. Neither were well attended, in fact one run at a small loss. We will continue to offer such programs in an attempt to improve the playing standard.

It is rumoured that the Institute will cease after this season.

Cost in one Association to play representative baseball is $500. Hills’ cost of $25 is insignificant compared to that figure.

 Mr. Yard believes that Hills should have the right to say where Kyle Darroch, Kirby McIntosh and Ben Macerola play this season if Kings Langley cannot nominate a team. Mr. Yard stated that if it is not possible to field a Hills Kings team then the three players should not all play for the same team. It only becomes relevant if all three are selected in the Hills’ Youth League team.

The Secretary’s report was accepted.


NSWJBL Report ...
Mr. Schmidt reported on the July meeting.  The meeting was poorly attended and there was no significant business conducted.

BNSW Junior League Standing Committee (JLSC) Report ...
Mr. Catt reported on the JLSC July meeting. Matters discussed:-
  • Mr. Catt reported that both Cronulla and Greater Western said ‘no’ to Little League as its club based competition.
  • The meeting also voted that the representative Under 12 competition would be 48’ pitching x 70’ base paths on a 5-3 vote. Competition commences 31 August.
  • Baseball NSW sought expressions of interest to host the Champions of Champions Tournament and the Little League State Titles.
  • Mr. Catt queried the temporary replacement pitcher rule as the rule is not producing what it was intended to do. It is used as a ‘tactical’ move.
  • Next meeting the nominations for Association Cup competitions close.

Treasurer's Report ...
  • Statement of Financial Position was presented.
  • Payments were approved.
  • Debtors and liabilities were disclosed.

Little League Discussion ...
Mr. Schmidt spoke on Little League stating that there needs to be a decision made.

Cronulla and Greater Western do not want to conduct their Saturday club competition to Little League rules and regulations. Cronulla are unhappy with the need to split into two teams at the ‘Tournament’ stage. Baseball NSW are now in somewhat damage control re Little League with now five Associations not wanting to conduct Little League the way Baseball NSW demand.


Mr. Willott has written to Greater Western stating that it is his intention that Little League will be conducted as a Saturday competition. He apparently has the backing of the ABF that as long as the Under 12 competition is played as a club competition on Saturday and branded as Little League. The 12 year olds are eligible to play in Little League tournament without playing in Little League.

It is a question of whether Hills sign the Little League charter. The charter is between Little League and the Associations, it is not a contract with the ABF or Baseball NSW. The JLSC is irrelevant in this instance. Question becomes do we want to be involved in Little League? It may have some advantage in its brand name and possibly in attracting sponsors.

We have three choices:-

(i) No, not interested:

(ii) Yes we are interested and prepared to conduct it on Baseball NSW terms: or

(iii) Yes we are interested but we will do it on our terms.

Mr. Catt stated he doesn’t see why Baseball NSW are so adamant on how the Little League is conducted.

Mr. Yard stated the argument has become one of control, with Baseball NSW exerting its will over the independence of Associations. The 250 split is ridiculous when you consider that only 11 and 12 year old players are eligible for tournament play then why ‘count’ the nine and ten year olds in the 250?

Mr. Yard went on to add that the ‘cornerstone’ of the Hills’ competitions is its ability to conduct three graded competitions – once we lose that ability then our player base will quickly and dramatically reduce.

The highest number of teams outside Under 8 last season were the Under 12 Leonard South and East conferences – both third division. Both competitions were virtual ‘walk-a-thons’, protected by a seven run rule. How these players would improve by pitching a further four feet, especially if required to use a 9” hard ball, was beyond belief.

Mr. Yard also added, if forced into a hard ball he would recommend the Worth R.I.F. Ball which Hills used some 20 years ago. The ball is still available.

It was resolved that the Douglass League would be played over 48’x 70’ and if it is a hard ball competition we will look at a RIF Ball. The Board opted that it would conduct Little League only as a separate Holiday competition and on our terms. The answer got real simple:- if BNSW would not budge on the diamond layout, the rest became irrelevant.


General Business ...
Come ‘N Try Days:
  • Mr. Whatson advised that Hawkesbury’s Come N Try Day had ‘heaps’ of people attend.
  • Baulkham Hills had 30 players involved.
  • Carlingford had two days and achieved a good response.
  • Schofields’ day achieved a reasonable turn out
  • Rouse Hill did very well in its day.
  • Kings Langley’s Come ‘N Try Day is on 16th August.

Bats: Mr. Whatson suggested an amendment to the rule relating to bats, that they be any material providing they are one piece.

The question of minus 7” for Under 14 competitions was raised. Mr. Yard advised that this was altered to minus 8 some time last season after the Conference sheets were published.

As an Association we are waiting for additional information on Bat Exit Speed rating.

Conditions of grounds: Mr. Niemi expressed his concern about the conditions of grounds and the effect that has on safety. His concern was about the hardness of the grounds, especially the area around bases.

Mini Ball: Mr. Petrone advised that Mini Ball will re commence on 17 October for term four.

Rules Night: Mr. Brown advised that there was confusion on the booking for the Rules Night. The night booked is for 26 August.

On Line Registration: Mr. Power sought information of any clubs that have the on line registration. Carlingford wants to move to that next season. Mr. Schmidt advised that the on line registration is available through the iSport system.

Little League: Mr. Frew presented the Association with an Australian Little League uniform.

Number of Teams: There was very little information as to the number of teams for next season. Mr Petrone advised Kellyville has lost teams, while Mrs. Douglas advised Rouse Hill has grown. Mr. Yard stated he expected a fall in the number of teams, but had no evidence to support his thoughts.


NEXT MEETING is September 9th in the boardroom of REMA Industries at 7.30pm