wpe6CE.jpg (11946 bytes)
wpe6DD.jpg (5528 bytes) Issue: November 9th, 2009
 Story 092903
ABSTRACTED MINUTES - ASSOCIATION MEETING, March 2009...

Attendees ... Delegates from:- Apologies from:-
The Executive ...
  • President
  • Secretary
  • Kings Langley
  • Castle Hill
  • Carlingford
  • Schofields
  • Kellyville
  • Oakville
  • Hawkesbury
  • Rouse Hill
  • Winston Hills
  • Baulkham Hills
  • Vice President

  • Correspondence inwards and outwards was tabled.
  • Minutes from the previous meeting were taken as read.

Secretary's Report
Mr Yard provided this written report ...

• Our focus is about to change to Development. Last meeting I asked clubs to nominate players they consider suitable for Development. No replies were received.

It is not intended to invite players with 2000 birth dates to the ‘late’ session on Tuesday as they are considered too young. Players of that age have the opportunity for development and a competition on Sunday morning. If we have to, it will be for composite teams using the Pony League draft system.

We are hopeful of extending the Development Program to include an opportunity for players aged 12 years and older. This program will be Thursday night at Kellyville. The use of word hopeful relates to fact that we are able to attract sufficient players.

We really need to target next season’s Under 14 players as we will be very weak in that age group next season. We will be relying on this year’s Under 12 to bolster this team- quite probably to lead the team.

The standard of play in the Hay League round robin, apart from Baulkham Hills has been quite disappointing. In that competition Castle Hill has to win and win very easily to reach the Grand Final.

• The meeting has a decision to make in relation to what started as a protest however, due to the way it was handled by Kings Langley it became a technical breach.

There is absolutely no doubt that Carlingford’s Under 12 Leonard South team breached the rule relating to the first nine batters must be the first nine fielders. Had it been a protest it would have been dismissed as the difference in the score was too great and the player involved did not have any effect on the result. Carlingford would have been fined as neither the coach or umpire knew the rules. Ignorance of the rules cannot be used as an excuse.

Whatever you decide a similar penalty should be imposed on Rouse Hill (again Leonard South) who did the same thing last Saturday.

My opinion is that you should review the rule – it is an old T Ball rule that has been surpassed in Live Ball by the need to bat all available players. To make a decision legal a coach can replace the player after one pitch.

As a matter of course the playing rules should be reviewed at the end of each season. Should clubs have any suggested changes these should be submitted by the April meeting.

• There was a meeting last meeting between Bankstown and Macarthur with a view to merging. I believe the meeting was initiated by Macarthur.

Not all of Bankstown clubs were said to be in favour of merging. Macarthur is struggling as are most Associations other than Hills, Ryde and Cronulla.

• The coaches for the Little League teams have been confirmed. Coaches are Hills North – Darian Lindsay ( Head Coach), Greg Clarke and Stuart Rofe are the Assistants. Hills South – Greg Giffin (Head Coach), Richard West and James Waddell are the Assistants.

• Hills now has an application for Blacktown Workers to join Hills. Blacktown presently has approximately six teams. The future of Holroyd is dependant upon what develops in the proposed Bankstown – Macarthur merger. Holroyd were interested in joining Bankstown. No doubt travelling to Macarthur will be a deterrent.

BNSW are saying that Cumberland is no longer viable and the Association has agreed with that. Cumberland on the other hand is denying it said or intimated that adding that it has not ‘given up’ hope.

• We are offering winter junior competitions in Under 10 (Live ball or Mod Ball), Under 12, 14 and 16 competitions. Age eligibility would be under the age as at 31st December, 2009. The Under 16 will be a Friday night competition.

• To comply with the coaching accreditation required for Little League we need to conduct a level 0 course for at least three of the LL coaches. We will offer an additional nine persons to gain Level 0 accreditation if they are interested. Hopefully we can announce the details of the course tonight.

• I forwarded the Clubs information of Sport, Youth and Recreation courses. Some are Sport Education Courses whilst another two designed for Clubs (Running you Club and Team Managers). For further details visit DSR web site

• Rumour has it that the Major League Committee is attempting to reduce the ML Competition to eight teams – it is being said that the clubs to go are North Shore and Auburn, with Canterbury and Macarthur to merge. As I said it is just a rumour however, the Super Six concept is not dead.

What is the number of Junior Associations if Bankstown and Macarthur merge? Just a co incidence….six.

• The Under 17 Youth Grand Final is scheduled for Kellyville on Friday night. The Under 12 Douglass is to be played Saturday at Kellyville.

The Hay League Grand Final will be played on Friday 20th. The remaining Grand Finals will be played at Bensons on Saturday 21st although there is a possibility that the Cashmore North game could become a night game at Kellyville.

• Sometime before June we should be discussing whether we have the correct structure of the competitions. My personal opinion is that Under 8 has become a shambles and because there are no points it is almost ‘anything goes’. ‘It is only T Ball’ covers the Coaches ignorance for the rules..

Under 12 Leonard South is a basket case – pitchers cannot throw strikes and there are only two or three innings being played each and every week. The idea to bring out the tee after a player ‘receives four balls’ will only slow the game down even further. It is another advantage to ‘bat for a walk’.

My personal opinion is that players leave T Ball far too early. They do not learn the basics and are ill equipped to play at Under 12 level and above, when they eventually get there. T Ball may not be perfect but it is the best learning aid that the sport has.

A large percentage of Leonard South teams would have benefited more from playing T Ball rather than standing around watching ball after ball being thrown. One team threw 14 walks in one game – the opposition managed to hit one ball out of the infield. That is not baseball- nor is it unusual- try 11 walks in 18 batters!. The team that threw so many walks were semi finalists.

Same comment applies to the bottom teams in Petroff /Daisley. There are four teams which are 11 or more points adrift of the 6 th placed team – 28 points behind the Premiers. Those four teams were much better off playing T Ball.

Hills’ weakness is to have viable first and second division competitions. I can see no justification to allow teams to nominate two teams in Southern Conferences and none in higher conferences. Yes I know it saves angst with parents, but what do the players learn?

If you look at the statistics of Douglass and Leonard North games last week – the Leonard North was the superior game. Less walks and fewer errors.

• There is a new proposal for the SJC in season 2009/10. As usual it is being rushed through without any time to have an intelligent debate. In summary it is the view of the Executive that what is being proposed will not work.

It is almost ludicrous. We will ask for the vote to be deferred – if that is unsuccessful we will probably vote No.

The proposal was best described as either at the best- they do not know exactly what they are doing or at the worst- they do not know what they are doing.

If it is implemented it will further weaken the club structure. The number of registrations are falling reasonably rapidly this will do nothing to reverse that. The sport cannot afford to lose the Club player. If teams cannot get outs and players no longer get satisfaction of playing they will look for another sport which will give them satisfaction

At Representative level not all coaches want to be involved every week, same with volunteer Umpires. Most people will have been involved with their Club’s on the Saturday.

Next step will be to take the representative players out of Club competition and play ‘reps’ only. In the early 2000’s this could have nearly have been achieved – but player numbers and quality of player are much weaker now.

The ironic part is the proposal is being submitted at a meeting for a Coaches de brief of last season. It is almost as if we don’t care what you think, here is a fait accompli proposal for next season.

• Castle Hill has won both the Club Championship and the Incentive Shield. The points in both are as follows:

[See Hills Website for details]

One change that I will be recommending before the 2009-10 season is a change to how the Club Championship is calculated. At present it is based on the points of each team a Club has in each competition (apart from Under 8 obviously) – irrespective of grade.

What will be suggested is a ‘weighting’ being applied which recognizes the first division teams are in fact superior to say Southern Conference teams. Whether that weighting is multiplied by three or four I am unsure. Northern Conferences would be multiplied by two and Southern Conferences by one. At the same time we should revisit the incentive Shield just to ensure every club with sufficient teams can win that trophy/ honour.

Personally I would hate to see the Club Championship being awarded to a club because it could dominate the Southern Conferences at the expense of clubs who strive to place teams in the first Division competitions. After all that is what the term Club Championship means – the strongest club through all grades.

In addition to the written report, Mr. Yard advised that

  • There was a dispensation request for Under 10 to play in Under 12 Leonard South
  • Mr. Robinson’s mother passed away requiring Greg to travel to the USA
  • The donation to Victorian Bushfire Appeal was unable to be made to the Telethon as it was impossible to ‘get through’.

The Secretary’s report was accepted.


NSWJBL Report ...

Mr. Schmidt reported on the February meeting. The topics discussed included:-

  • The overseas Tours (Under 16 to Europe, Under 15 to USA and Under 12/13 Japan)

  • Applications to host the Pan Pacific Tournament in August are still being sought.

  • Trials for the touring teams commence on 28th February.


BNSW Junior League Standing Committee (JLSC) Report ...

Mr. Whatson reported on the February meeting which was to be a coaches’ debrief on the representative season.

  • The Development Manager (T. Harradine) is looking for year 12 students to conduct after school clinics. Prepared to pay $40 per hour. He also wishes to attend Associations’ meetings – “to grow baseball”.
  • Hills to have different uniforms for its two Little League teams.
    • Actions from JLSC Report: It was generally considered that Hills Little League teams will play in the Hills representative uniform and one team switch to ‘T Shirts’ if the teams have to play each other.
    • The other alternative is to play both teams in T Shirts – but that just adds to the players’ cost of participating.

Treasurer's Report ...
  • Statement of Financial Position was presented.
  • Payments were approved.
  • Debtors and liabilities were disclosed.

President's Address...

Mr. Schmidt raised the following matters

Heat Policy: The proposed trigger points may be too low and need to be increased. The problem for Hills is that there is not a lot of information available. The SMA is regarded as the ‘expert body’. Most popular sports in Australia are played in winter. Mr. Schmidt advised that he is talking to Tennis Queensland which is more pro-active than most. It uses a matrix which is not a direct comparison to the proposed method that we are considering using. They use a combination of ambient temperature/humidity. The difference is that they play in hotter conditions with lower humidity. It is the humidity that is causes us difficulties in assessing the correct ‘trigger points’ Some sports (e.g. Softball) just call it off when temperature reaches 34°C. We will proceed with the policy but adjust trigger points to a higher reading and adjust if and when it is proven necessary.

Dispensation Policy: Mr. Schmidt had distributed a discussion paper on the Policy prior to the meeting. Prior to 2007 season there was a questionnaire issued which, after the responses were assessed, a revised policy was issued. From those responses it was obvious that clubs wanted there to be no ‘hard and fast’ rules. The revised policy did not correct the anomalies and each season since then there has been inconsistencies as to who is and who isn’t granted a dispensation.

The proposed policy has a structure of a Expert Panel (DEP) comprising of three elected people. That panel will appoint assessors whose responsibility it will be to assess the players requiring/requesting dispensation. The decision to grant dispensations will be made by the Expert Panel and not at a Board meeting. The policy will require Clubs to adjust their grading period. It is proposed that there be an Assessment Day in the second last week of August.

The process is to be completed for the September meeting. A Register of the decisions re dispensation is to be maintained. This register, in time, will form a series of precedents. There was a question as to what the criteria for dispensation will be.

Mr. Yard replied that we are dealing with the structure first. That has to be right before how dispensations will be granted is determined. There was a question as to why are we allowing players to play up in age groups when in fact this is reducing the playing standard lower age competitions (Mr. Neimi). Mr. Whatson suggested hefty fines for breaches of dispensation. The structure of an Expert Panel and Assessors to determine dispensation was agreed to.

Resulting from the discussion on Dispensation was an apparent consensus that Under 12 Leonard South competition should be T Ball.

Behavioural Standards Recommendations: The members of the Board asked that they be given more time to discuss the recommendations. The discussion included advice from Ms Foley that to have a Police Check on volunteers performed, you need to have the consent of the Individuals (cost $52). Even then the check is not as complete as it is for the B.S.R. check.

Working with Children: The question is whether Hills Representative coaches should be required to do the web site exam. The suggestion is that the club coaches do something in this area as part of the membership requirement to be able to enter teams. There is education material available from D.S.R. website and from Child Safe.

Spectators Code of Conduct: This should be publicised through out the Association. At present this is not enforced, where and when it is inconsistent among clubs. Need to develop a common set of words based on “Sports Rage” to form a contractual agreement with parents. A registry of incidents is to be maintained by all clubs.

Compliance Officer: It will be necessary for each club to have a Compliance Officer to ensure the procedures are in place and are the same at each club. It will in some ways be a cultural change.

Ground Officials: This will be mandatory at all grounds. The person will be able to be identified by the wearing of a High Visibility Vest. They will be the contact person should there be a problem with spectators at the ground. Their duties are ‘off field’, the umpire has control ‘on field’. They are not to interpret rules. A record of who was the Ground Official is to be maintained and kept in the canteen.

Simplified Rules: It is considered that the Conference Sheets that are required to be placed in every team’s score book should be enough.

Umpire’s Development: deferred until next meeting.

I.D. Cards: This is to be discussed further by the clubs.

Club ’Territories’: deferred until next meeting. Kings Langley is concerned with the encroachment of Quakers Hill into the Glenwood, Schofields and Rouse Hill areas.


General Business ...


Blacktown Workers:
Blacktown Workers have applied to join Hills. There appears no impediment to the club joining the Hills as it poses no problems with its development/recruitment areas. Also has the advantage of having a lit ground. It was agreed to admit Blacktown Workers into Hill under the same conditions that applied to Quakers Hill’s admission. Vote was 10 for none against with one abstention.

JLSC Proposal: There is a proposal by BNSW Board to alter the structure of the SJC. The changes include:

  • The loss of Cumberland and the merging of Bankstown and Macarthur, at least for the purpose of representative baseball.
  • Games will be innings based and not time based. Under 12 (six innings), Under 14 (seven innings) and Under 16 (nine innings).
  • Competition is to be completed prior to Christmas.
  • It commences 30th August.
  • Association Cup will be scrapped and replaced by a series of Gala Days of which Associations are required to bid for two.

The purpose of the changes is to raise the standard of competition and easier for the replay of washed out games. The proposal was discussed, however it was considered that there was insufficient notice for the concept to be considered by the Clubs. There are far too many ‘holes’ in the proposal for it to be voted on. Logistics of playing every week was a concern for some clubs. The Gala Day proposal was unclear as whether it was for Association teams, club teams or composite teams. Are representative players eligible to play in ‘Gala Days’? It was resolved that the Hills delegate to JLSC would seek a deferment of one month on the vote and if there is no deferment, then Hills would vote against the proposal.

Dispensations: Baulkham Hills were granted dispensations for Lachlan Keegan (Under 10 T Ball player) to play Under 12 Leonard South. Team is possibly short of players for final series.

Catt League: Mrs. Henderson confirmed that Baulkham Hills Under 10 Catt League were available to play Quakers Hill on Saturday 14th March at Northmead at 10.30am.

Exhibition Day: Mr. Power advised that Carlingford would be conducting an exhibition day on 22 March at Murray Farm commencing at 1pm. Games involve Committee v Coaches and Carlingford All Stars v Carlingford Legends.


NEXT MEETING is April 15th in the boardroom of REMA Industries