wpe6CE.jpg (11946 bytes)
wpe6DD.jpg (5528 bytes) Issue: November 9th, 2009
 Story 092910
ABSTRACTED MINUTES - ASSOCIATION MEETING, October 2009...

Attendees ... Delegates from:- Apologies from:-
The Executive ...
  • President
  • Secretary
  • Carlingford
  • Baulkham Hills
  • Winston Hills
  • Schofields
  • Castle Hill
  • Kellyville
  • Oakville
  • Hawkesbury
  • KL
  • Workers
  • Wildcats
  • Vice President
  • Pirates

  • Correspondence inwards and outwards was tabled.
  • Minutes from the previous meeting were taken as read.

Secretary's Report
Mr Yard provided this written report ...

• Club team rosters are due. I have received Oakville’s (also Blacktown, Winston Hills and Kellyville but unsure if they are latest). Rosters are to be submitted by 26 October to allow Invoices to be prepared by end of October.

• We need to start to think about Little League.

Initial thoughts are that the training of pitchers will commence on Tuesday 8th December…last season’s teams were deficient in pitching and this year will be no different.

We will again offer the January School Holiday competition. The competition will commence the on Wednesday 13th January, followed by a double header on the following Saturday.

We have no compliance issues in conducting the Holiday Competition. The reason we conduct the competition is to provide players more games in the season. What we do not want to do is to discriminate against any player nor jeopardize the concept of the Holiday Competition.

Some improvements will be made on last year’s model. Allowing all players 12 year old players (irrespective of their 13th birth-date) to play, to strengthen the playing standard- is one discussion item.

  • Maximum of six teams.

  • We need to reduce the team roster size from 14 players to 12. This would be far ‘easier’ on coaches to achieve equal playing time and confirms with our own Competition Rules.

  • Hills’ registered players must be given preference over players.

  • Players have to be available for a minimum of at least half of the games to be eligible for inclusion in the rosters.

  • Last year we allowed the nine year olds whose 10th  birthday was between 1st January and and 31st March to play…however this really weakened the playing standard as players could not cope with ‘Live Ball’ and made the coaches’ task that much more difficult. These players are ineligible for selection in the representative teams.

The biggest problem could be how to select the two Representative teams. Last year the SJC players and those in Under 14 Association Cup team were exempt from competing in the January competition. This year we have no Association Cup team. This and the requirement to play at least half of the games will no doubt cause us some angst.

The alternative is to select the best players from the Association in the Little League team...but then why would players play in a January competition other than play more games?

One thing that was determined last season that the Player’s Draft would not be performed by the team coaches….rather it will be the task of a panel including Nigel Hern and myself.

  • Needs to be an increase in the cost – the single greatest cost is the T Shirts, caps and postage. Last year was $15 this year probably $20.

• Koala League commences on 24th October. It will be basically based out of Ashley Brown 3 as there are few opportunities to have the competition played at other venues. It is considered essential that the four teams play on the same ground each week. We will consider using ‘non traditional’ Koala League grounds, especially if it assists in increasing the grounds usage.

• The Draw for the season has been issued. The Under 14 competitions are causing the most concern. The Hay League standard cannot be compared with the standard of past years. Quakers Hill are struggling in Hay League and earlier sought to be regarded.

Rouse Hill wish to be regarded from Street West to Street South and have some justification. If Rouse Hill are regarded then so should Workers who were defeated by Rouse Hill.

I remain convinced that Hawkesbury are too strong for Street North, .they certainly will be when representative players come off restrictions after 5th December.

Whether Hawkesbury is a straight swap for Quakers Hill is the best solution is the question?

I am not sure about standard of the Baulkham Hills and Carlingford teams, they can be accommodated in Street West along with Quakers Hill and Oakville. The Street North competition would be ‘collapsed’.

With the re-grading of both Rouse Hill and Blacktown to Street South the configuration of the competitions would be:

  • Hay League – Baulkham Hills, Castle Hill, Hawkesbury and Kellyville.

  • Street West -  Baulkham Hills, Carlingford, Castle Hill, Eagles, Oakville, Quakers Hill x2, Winston Hills. Representative players would be required to pitch off 54’ all season.

  • Street South- Baulkham Hills, Blacktown, Castle Hill, Kellyville Broncos, Kellyville Mustangs, Kings Langley, Rouse Hill x2, Schofields and Quakers Hill,

There is some justification to the thought that we are sacrificing second division competitions to conduct viable first division competitions. No one wants to play first division but certainly don’t want first division teams playing in second division.

• We are having second thoughts on the allocation of representative games. At the time of the original decision the Hills’ home game at Corbin was against the Convenor’s teams in Under 12 and Under 14.

However, the Convenor’s Under 14 team never eventuated and there was only one game at Corbin. We will attempted to allocate one of the Hills’ home games in ‘top four’ round to Corbin if the draw is favourable with both the Under 12 and 14 teams being drawn at home together.

• The Dispensations have been completed. There were a few rough edges along the way...mainly as a result of not all players being able to be assessed at the one time. It is important to allow the assessors to directly compare players of the same age requiring dispensation.

It is a service we offer not a right for parents to pick and chose when and where to attend assessment. Also the date for applications for dispensation will be brought forward to avoid the confusion on the assessment day when clubs were late in submitting the necessary paperwork.

In all there were 33 dispensations, three were refused- one for no paperwork being submitted, one for ‘no show’ and the other where panel considered the player could play Mod Ball instead of Leonard South.

One point that the Dispensations Committee has stated is that nine year olds approved to play T Ball in Catt League which is a combined Under 10/12 T Ball competition cannot play Live Ball without being again assessed as a Liveball player.

All clubs have been informed of the approved dispensations and the restrictions imposed

• Most games scheduled for the 3rd October were washed out. The replay date 14th November has been set and advised to the clubs. There will be no extension to that date as it allows the clubs a ‘full’ four weeks to organize the replay once the School Holiday period is over.

The Under 17 teams that sought deferment from the games drawn on 10th October will find that things will become very crowded with already replays at both representative and local levels and scheduled midweek games.

• A point that needs to be made relates to wet weather.

On the 3rd October the advice of ground closures was extremely poor. Hawkesbury, as always is the case, was the first club to ring in with a report on the condition of Bensons. This was at 6.30am.

They were followed shortly after by Castle Hill. The last report was at 8.55am with a ground closure – that is 25 minutes after the first game was scheduled.

It all there were seven or eight updates on the Wet Weather line on that day. That information is only as good as what is being received. No information always is treated that the ground is open.

In future in cases of wide spread rain ALL clubs are to report the condition of their grounds as soon as possible but by 8 am at the latest.

• We have conducted the first of the two October holiday camps. The second camp commences Tuesday 13th…that will be the fourth of the season. The camps should result in a small profit for the Association.

The camps conducted have again reinforced the view that the minimum age for players attending the camps can be no younger than 9 years of age.

• As foreshadowed at the September meeting we will offer a Development program on Tuesday nights at Kellyville at 7pm. It will primarily be for pitchers and catchers. Minimum age will be 10 year old. Clubs are to nominate players however in the end it will be participation by invitation.

• Also we have our first Protest of the season. It involves a case where a pitcher exceeded the maximum number of innings.

As always with protests the decision has to pass the test of common sense.  In this case Kellyville’s pitcher threw five or six pitches into the fourth innings, achieving an ‘out’ in the process. Baulkham Hills were never going to win the game –as it trailed 8-1 in a seven run Conference and Kellyville had a bat in hand in the final innings.

The Umpire stated that the advantage of the ‘out’ would be negated however, this did not happen. If that had occurred then no action would have been taken, other than against the coach responsible for over pitching. The playing rule has been amended to reflect this thought.

As such, Kellyville has lost the game however the win will not be awarded to Baulkham Hills. The alternative was to impose a fine on Kellyville. This was decided against as we expect (read demand) that coaches and Umpires know the rules of the competition they are playing / officiating in.

The Protest claiming a breach of duty of care has not been proven….in fact there is evidence from two Independent people that players on Diamond 2 did in fact have helmets on.

The question is now whether there should be an automatic suspension, as happens in representative baseball, for coaches who breach the rules.

Hills and Clubs have to share some of the blame as the Ground Official procedure agreed to in March was not in place. Had it been then the problem would not have become  exacerbated as it did. In my travels I have not been to a ground that had a Ground Official visible.

Peter has issued the Ground Official documentation – as part of the implementation process will involve the

# Purchase of vests, cost $520 for 50 pieces. We will issue 16 or so to start with - the balance to be billed as replacements.

# Purchase of corflute signs, cost $430 for 120 pieces. We will issue 68 or so to start with - the balance to be billed as replacements.

• Baulkham Hills has also submitted a Breach of Notice over the same incident. To my reading of the Breach of Notice there is nothing additional contained in it that was not in the Protest so the Breach Notice was unnecessary.

• A disappointing downside of the protest will be that there will be a person cited to appear before a Committee to hear a charge of Breach of Code Conduct.

• We had a game in Street South where the bottom of the innings was not completed despite the winning run being on third base at the time game was called at 10.20pm.

Baulkham Hills have justified the decision, claiming it was made so that the 10.30 game would start late. Surely to allow the game to reach 10.20 and call ‘game’ when there was a result so close lacks judgement. The game will be resumed when the teams next meet.

• There was confusion with the rules for what is now known as Akers North and Akers South. Where the confusion came about was with the Conference Sheet Rules.

When the Conferences were drawn, they were drawn equally and assumed both were playing to the one set of rules of the loosely termed Fun ball Conferences of Under 8.

The rules for both Conferences will be identical (neither has competition points) - the rules for both are:

  • all available players bat every innings, irrespective of the number of outs achieved.  

  • the relaxation requiring the tagging of non forced runners and

  • allowing a change to the batting order each innings.

Easiest way out of the confusion is to rename Akers North to Akers East (Akers South remains as South).

I will re issue the Under 8 Akers North draw, ‘re badged’ as Akers East, by doing this it will avoid changing the Conference Rule Sheets.

It also allows for the possibility of next season the clubs to choose between:

  • The Super 8 competition - which will remain an option for Clubs

  • A Conference which is closer to the rules of Super 8 ( three outs- maximum 9 batters) but with no competition points

  • A third Conference which is Fun ball.

  • There was no hierarchy between North and Eastern Conferences.

  • The Super 8 T Ball is played for both Competition and Club Championship points.

  • I cannot stress enough that for T Ball to be played successfully it needs experienced Umpires officiating.

• The BNSW Annual General Meeting was a low key affair. There is a report on the meeting in Correspondence.

• There should have been no need to issue an instruction re high performance bats in Under 14 and Under 17 Cashmore Leagues as we had confirmed the decision several times.

The 'jungle drums' were beating that there are high performance bats being used in Hay League and I guess Street North, Street West, Cashmore North and Cashmore South. Judging by the bats brought to the camp the ‘jungle drums’ are correct

Hay League has never been allowed to use high-tech bats. Carbon fibre bats, even single-piece, do not meet the test of "... one piece of hollow metal..."

Maximum length bats for Under 14 age group is 32".

While we are with bats

Only 2 1/4" diameter bats can be used in the Under 14 Peter Street South League

the maximum weight differential in bats for Under 12 competition is minus 10. Maximum dia of the barrel being 2 1/4"

The "escape clause" for the Under 17 is that high-tech bats allowed in the BNSW representative games are legal in Shipley Youth League - however that does not extend to Cashmore nor any Under 14 Leagues.

Just a point on Rule Breaches, do not report it to me and expect me to act on your behalf while you ‘wipe your hands’ of the issue. That is what the Notice of Breach form is for.

• Unfortunately we have had our first ejection of the season. Coach Peter Theos (Under 17 Cashmore South) was ejected. That judiciary hearing will be conducted this week.

• We have been concerned for a number of seasons with the safety of diamonds when there are Under 17, and in some cases Under 14, games being played at the same time as younger age groups. We have always attempted to have ‘buffers’ by the way of vacant adjoining diamonds when there are older ages playing

The concept that it is OK as long as the younger players wear helmets in no longer acceptable to the Executive – it places the Association, Club and Umpire in an untenable situation. Umpiring concerns and Canteen revenue become secondary.

You cannot expect players, especially the very young player to enjoy the sport if he is concerned about being struck by a ball from another diamond.

The concern now is such that we will be re examining the draws with a view to transferring games off these venues/diamonds. It may well get down to clubs deciding which age group plays at home while others are transferred to another venue.

I foreshadowed the problems at Sutton and Castle Glen last meeting, however others of concern are:  Kellyville, Murray Farm and Corbin. The request to play on Friday evening at Sutton was very poorly responded to.

Clubs cannot expect to field multiple Under 17 and 14 teams and still achieve a balanced number of home and away games for all its teams unless of course they have a second venue.

Castle Hill has offered Knights on some days as a neutral venue. We are already using Grantham as a neutral ground for some Under 17 games in a bid to increase the useage of that ground.

• The Thermo hydrometers have been received and will be issued on Tuesday night on the basis of one per ground.

The Secretary’s report was accepted.

Matters arising from the Secretary’s Report:

Mrs. Guyer asked who votes at BNSW AGM.

Mr. Schmidt explained the voting entitlements which results in Associations having up to three votes, depending on size.  Also Standings Committees have three votes.  One ‘organization’ and its affiliates control 11 votes

NSWJBL Report ...

Mr. Yard reported on the September meeting. The main issues were the Reports on Pan Pacific tournament and the four overseas touring teams.

Manly were suggesting that NSWJBL –

  • Subsidize the costs of overseas tours and

  • Use its funds to assist Associations in areas such as recruitment of players.  Manly believe players from Associations who are not members of NSWJBL should have equal rights of selection in touring teams after they pay the ‘non members’ levy.

Neither of these suggestions were acceptable to the meeting.


BNSW Junior League Standing Committee (JLSC) Report ...
Mr. Schmidt advised that the September meeting of the JLSC had been cancelled as there were no Agenda items submitted.

Treasurer's Report ...
  • Statement of Financial Position was presented.
  • Payments were approved.
  • Debtors and liabilities were disclosed.

General Business ...


BNSW 
-  Mr. Schmidt advised that there is a small increase in the BNSW fees – yet the ABF costs have reduced.  Payment needs to be made on time, the discount for payment on time has been withdrawn and replaced by a reasonably substantial surcharge if payment is not made by 31st October.

Little League - .The concept for this season’s Holiday competition were outlined in the Secretary’s Report.  There are recommended changes to the concept -

  • i)   competition becomes an Under 13 competition

  • ii)   rosters limited to 12 players

  • iii)   players have to play in competition to be eligible for selection in representative Little League teams, but players can apply for exemption e.g. family holidays.

  • iv)  increase in cost of participation

  • v)  possibility of conducting a Minor League competition.

The recommended changes were approved.

There was a decision needed as to who pays the costs – do clubs pass costs on to the players.  It was agreed that clubs would pay 50% of the costs from the Co-Op program.

Code of Conduct documentation - The document needs to be formally accepted.  The BSC always wanted a procedure by which the Association would be able to cite people who had not been ejected from the field of play.

   The Code of Conduct documentation was approved.

Ground Official Documentation – The meeting had previously agreed to the concept of the Ground Official.  Mr. Schmidt advised that the Spectators Code of Conduct may change – the present wording is ‘taken’ from Soccer and Sport & Recreation.

Mr. Brown expressed a concern about the authority and ‘power’ of the Ground Official.  Mr. Schmidt confirmed that the Ground Official concept does not involve the person becoming involved in any matters under the control of the umpire.  The concept is for the Ground Official to solve the problem before it becomes one.  It is intended to ‘change the culture’.

   The documentation was agreed to and will be published.

   Mr. Schmidt advised that the purchase of the equipment, signs and vests is under way.

Heat Policy – Mr. Schmidt advised that the Thermo hydrometers, which will measure the heat and humidity, have been received. The actual ‘cut off’ figure still needs to be determined and will be done after further consultation.

   The Thermo hydrometers were issued on the basis of one per ground. Meters were issued to Baulkham Hills, Schofields, Oakville, Carlingford x 2, Rouse Hill, Winston Hills and Kellyville.

‘No Provision for a late start’  – Baulkham Hills has submitted a letter explaining its position in calling a game at 10.20am without completing the bottom of the innings with the scores tied and the winning run on bases.

   Mr. Schmidt explained that this consideration had not occurred when the rules were written.

   Mr. Yard explained that the rule re ‘no provision for a late start’ was introduced to cover the circumstances where teams or the umpires were not ready for the game to start.  In the final series there is an explanation that where the early game finishes late, the late game is deemed to have commenced when the umpire calls ‘Play Ball’.

   This rule will be amended to clarify it more.

25ft circle Mod Ball - T Ball -  Mr. Brown reported that the 25ft foul ball semi circle was not being marked.

Mr. Yard commented that the no marking of some diamonds may be because the grounds are also used for senior games – but really there is no excuse for the lines not to be marked, at least some markers (small witches hats) to enable the ump9ire to have an idea of the distance the ball had travelled.

   Mr. Grogan advised that the rule was not being ‘policed’ in Petroff League.

   Mr. Yard advised that the 25ft. was not as important in Mod Ball as it is in T Ball.  The rule can be deleted in Mod Ball as it allows the catcher to be more ‘involved’ in the game.  It has to be retained in T Ball including Jeff Catt League.  

Child Protection Forms – Mr. Frew advised that Oakville’s Child Safe Co-Ordinator is Bronwyn Bailey.

Mr. Frew asked whether the submission of the Child Protection Forms need to be audited?  Mr. Schmidt advised that apart from collecting the forms – nothing needs to happen until Hills’ forms are requested, as a part of random sampling.

Dugout for Centenary -  Mr. Grogan advised that Baulkham Hills Council has given approval to the erection of Dugouts at Centenary.

Hills Dinner – Mr. Yard stated that as an Association we are losing contact with those people who had given so much to the Association.  Basically the only time people see each other is unfortunately at funerals – and even then it is possible to notify all people are aware of the deaths, or serious illnesses.

An annual dinner or one every two years would allow Hills to keep in contact.

In his opinion Mr. Yard stated it does not have to be at the end of the season, in fact there may be a better time of the year to conduct it.

Mr. Yard also suggested that Hills ‘pick up’ the recognition of volunteer categories that NSWJBL used to award. Obviously it would be based on clubs and not the Association. The categories were Administrators, Coaches, Ground Officials.


NEXT MEETING is November 10th in Sport & Rec room at Fred Caterson Reserve