wpe6CE.jpg (11946 bytes)
wpe6DD.jpg (5528 bytes) Issue: July 30th, 2007
 Story 072101
ABSTRACTED MINUTES - ASSOCIATION MEETING, June 2007...

Attendees ... Delegates from:- Apologies from:-
The Executive ...
  • President
  • Vice President
  • Secretary
  • Kings Langley
  • Rouse Hill
  • Castle Hill
  • Baulkham Hills
  • Winston Hills
  • Carlingford
  • Kellyville
  • Schofields
  • Hawkesbury
  • Oakville

  • Correspondence inwards and outwards was tabled.
  • Minutes from the previous meeting were taken as read.

Secretary's Report
Mr Yard provided this written report ...

Well Little League is here and there is nothing we can do about it. Along the way it has done a full circle.

Told you last meeting that they did not understand what was at hand – and they well and truly showed that with a sensational back flip worth 10 in any scale. From - No that is not what we agreed to and we won’t be doing that – to - it is here and here to say. These two statements were made in the space of less than seven days.

It is not the first time Little League has attempted to have Little League introduced into Australia. The ABF has previously been against the concept. As indicated in a response by the then ABF National Development Manager

This was Peter Woods (ABF) response in 2004

Why is not the Little League™ Program a big organisation in Australia?
(Answer provided by Peter Wood, National Development Manager, August 2004)
The Australian Baseball Federation is a not-for-profit organisation and the peak body for the sport in Australia, recognised by federal and state governments, the Australian Sports Commission, the Australian Olympic Committee and the International Baseball Federation.

Our members participate in tournaments all over the world in youth and senior age categories. All Australian baseballers benefit through sharing in this alignment with government as we rely heavily on grants and subsidies at state and national levels.

Our junior baseball systems are club-based and we interact frequently with other nations through International Baseball Federation sanctioned events. We are also active in the Cal Ripken international program and the World Children™s Baseball Fair (a US and Japan joint initiative) and a host of other similar events. Our juniors also participate in other international events independent of the International Baseball Federation construct, but at this point in time Little League is not one of them.

In previous investigations of the Little League structure we have found many commonalities between that system and our own hopefully a good indicator that our junior baseball is administered at least on par with others around the world. The Little League World Series aside, and with due respect to all those who work tirelessly for the sport within that system, we have not been able to identify a distinct advantage in aligning to an organisation that would ostensibly shift some financial resources outside of our own country.

So what has changed? Still cannot identify an advantage. Rather than waste time trying to find a way to make it work we should be asking do we want to participate. Is the risk of someone coming in and starting Little League in the Hills’ a real risk rather than an applied risk? Actually the risk may be from within Hills. But is what they are offering all that ‘flash’?

We change why? Because the ABF says so – hardly enough reason to dismantle what is a club based competition that is commensurate with players’ abilities.

It is another illustration of where Organizations have Independent Board members… these members are quite often far too remote from the ‘coal face’ and do not actually represent the rank and file members.

Peter and I have an alternate proposal that we will present at the meeting tonight. Obviously we think it is best for Hills.

In between time the Little League concept is that every player aged 12 must play Major League. This is irrespective of ability… dispensations will be difficult to obtain… will not be necessarily an Association decision.

If the total number of players aged 10, 11 or 12 as at 1 May does not exceed say 245 players we do not have to split. That is unlikely.

More than 250 players mean that Hills will have to split its strength - simply we do not have the strength to conduct a ten team major league competition. Ability wise we probably would be lucky to conduct a four or five team First Division competition. But with all 12 year olds supposed to play Major League (players aged 10 & 11 have the choice what League they play in). This all means that we could quite conceivably have more than 10 Major League teams.

Clubs will have to grade their teams equally or otherwise find that teams are ‘cannon fodder’.

How that that improve the retention of players I don’t know. Little League does not care they only play Under 13.

Our concern is not the elite - but how to keep players in the game. Take last year Under 12 - four team Douglass League, a seven team Leonard North League and an 11 team Southern Conference.

Generally speaking it will result in a weaker standard. It decimates the Under 14 age group with a number of players staying in Little League age instead of moving to Under 14 age group as a natural progression … not by ability but by birth-date.

The Under 12 Southern Conference which was a poor standard at the lower end of the competition have to move from 42’x60’ to 46’x60’ with a 9” hard ball (that they will not be able to throw properly) instead of an 8 ½” ball and have the fear factor rapidly increased. Their crime – they are 12 year old.

How will they even cope this year let alone be able to cope with demands at an older age?… yep Little League does not care they only play Under 13 age group – there is another bunch of kids ‘dying’ to play next year!

Really feel sorry for clubs that will rely upon a mixed age team of 11 and 12 year olds – they would have to play Major League irrespective of ability.

Certainly we do not really want nine year olds moving into Under 10 and therefore Little League. We will have to find an alternate competition for those players.

This argument again highlights the difference in structure between NSW (Association based) and the remainder of Australia which has a Club structure but a central control. I continue to say that the ABF and Baseball NSW would prefer to eliminate the Associations.

The Baseball NSW threat to employ people to conduct senior competitions (to bypass Associations/ Leagues) that remain unaffiliated – should also be seen as a threat to Junior Associations.

On to other matters ...

  • Michael Olson leaves this week to take up a playing position with the new Israeli Professional League.
  • One item likely to be forgotten is Castle Hill’s proposal re each team having an official umpire ‘attached’ to it.
  • Baseball NSW fees have risen again. Clubs need to plan for
    • Live ball Under 14 and over… $55 compared to $48.40 last year.
    • Live ball Under13 – Under 11… $57 compared to $48 last year.
    • Tee ball $33 …compared to $29.70 last year.
    • TryBall under 7… still to be confirmed.
  • Hills’ fees are $11 per player. I am certain we do a lot more for our $11.
  • In recent weeks we have fielded two approaches from Cumberland Clubs to join Hills. Both approaches were declined as we are still believers in the Association Boundaries. Also any defection from Cumberland would have been the death knell of Cumberland. As it was a motion to ‘wind up’ Cumberland was defeated 6 votes to 4 at the adjourned Annual General Meeting.
  • Last meeting I had advised that clubs could prepare for the competition to commence on 8 September – however that is the long weekend gazetted by the State Government as part of the APEC Conference.
  • We are considering two changes to our playing rules, both come out of Little League.
    • The first is to introduce the break away bases and
    • The banning of head first slides apart when returning to first on a pick off in Under 14- Under 17.
  • Tonight we will present for approval a Co – Op program
  • The nominations for position of coaches for the Representative teams have closed. The applications received are
    • Under 16 – John Chapman, Robert Stone and Ralph Warne
    • Under 14 - Jeff Catt, Greg Robinson and Peter Olson. Andrew Woodward (Manager)
    • Under 12 – Nigel Hern, Peter Olson.
  • We will move to interview stage for Under 16 coaches.
  • Nominations for the Executive have been received nominating the retiring Executive.

The Secretary’s report was accepted.


NSWJBL Report ...
Mr. Schmidt reported on the NSWJBL May meeting.
  • The Under 15 team to USA has picked up players and all four teams are now complete.
  • NSWJBL is accepting the invitations to Singapore (Under 13) and China (Under 16). These tours will be October and August respectively.
  • Little League concept was discussed as was the argument re un-affiliated Senior Leagues

BNSW Junior League Standing Committee (JLSC) Report ...
Mr. Catt reported on the May JLSC Meeting
  • Baseball NSW to appoint umpires for Sydney Junior Championship Games in season 2007/8.
  • There is a proposal to vary rule and allow pitchers to come from field.
  • Champion of Champions will probably happen on 20-30 March at East Hills.
  • There is an emerging Association in Earlwood/Stanmore area.
  • Mr. Catt again asked what action had been taken in relation to Manly not meeting its defensive out requirements in Under 14 Sydney Junior Championship finals. Also asked why Winter Development Coaching applicants were not asked whether they were available to coach. Some people appointed, some people just ignored.
  • Baseball NSW was disappointed at attendant at Strategic meeting – poorly advertised.

Treasurer's Report ...
  • Statement of Financial Position was presented.
  • Payments were approved.
  • Debtors and liabilities were disclosed.

General Business ...
Little League: was discussed again.

Mr. Schmidt asked whether the Board members had looked at the material available to it. As an Association we have been backwards and forwards trying to figure out what the concept is all about and how it gets stitched together to form a competition. Despite a meeting and submitting formal written questions, we are still unsure what framework exists.

Hills has issued a Position Paper. We believe that Little League should be optional and played as an additional competition. Under the ABF proposal the old Under 12 competition is eliminated. Little League is a true age competition for 12s born after 1 May, 11 and 10 olds. The age group is much broader and will absorb approximately one third more players into that competition than the Under 12 competition. This itself is a huge problem for some Associations, certainly Hills, which have more than 250 players in the Little League age group (9 to 12 years of age) have to split in two. Hills has approximately 360 players.

Little League has two divisions –

  • Minor League - 9, 10 and 11 year olds. 12 year not eligible to play – no exceptions.
  • Major League – all 12 year olds, 11 year olds can choose.
    • Playing distance – 46` x 60` played with 9” baseballs

The ABF wants the competition to replace existing competitions and be played on the weekend. They certainly do not want to run it as a separate or additional competition. The Executive is recommending that we conduct the competition midweek, under lights. It is not for clubs rather interested players are placed in a central pool and the teams are selected by a ‘draft’ system to achieve an equalisation of teams. The competition would be completed in time to select a representative team of 14 players. Baseball NSW states that players in Under 14 cannot return to play in Little League. We are assuming this to be players who make the Under 14 representative team.

The concept was supported by the Board and the Position Paper agreed to. It was also agreed to forward the paper to Baseball NSW.

Change in Uniform: Mr. Clapson advised that Rouse Hill is changing the design of its uniform. The final design will be finalised during the month.

Outstanding money: Mr. Bray queried the outstanding account listed for Castle Hill. Mr. Yard advised the account was for Kenko C Class balls.

Team Nominations: In response to a question by Mr. Bray, Mr. Yard advised that the team nominations will be due 31 August. The competition will now commence 15 September.

Representative trials: The dates for the representative trials have been previously advised. Under 16 on Saturday 29th July: Under 12 and Under 14 on Sunday 5th August. The venues for all the trials is Castle Glen. It is hoped that the Under 16 will trial Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday, Tuesday if we can gain access to Knights Field on Tuesday nights.

Try Baseball: Mr. Borg advised that Carlingford’s Try Baseball date is 19 July.

Standards Commission: Mr. Schmidt advised that the report from the Standards Commission is due by 30 June. The report is certain to include the subject of umpires.

Co-op Program: Mr. Schmidt submitted the Hills’ Co-op Program for approval. It was approved unanimously.

Rule Book: Mr. Schmidt advised that the Rule Book for Season 2007/8 will be presented for approval at July meeting. One inclusion will be the banning of head first slides – apart from returning to bases on attempted pick offs.

Breakaway Bases: Mr. Schmidt advised that the introduction of breakaway bases would be funded, in part, by Hills from its Co-op Program. Hills would pay part of the cost – provided it purchased the bases. The introduction of the bases is mandated for 2008/9.

Recruitment/Retention: Mr. Schmidt advised that he had produced a summary of information on recruitment and retention of players within the Association. The study shows that we lost approximately a third of our players in three years. This will be discussed further – and the information be provided to clubs.


NEXT MEETING is July 10th at the Baulkham Hills Sporting Club, 7:30pm.